Brian goes a little too deep covering more origin stories for Batman. Everything from 1989 to 2022 and some awful Golden age stories to boot.
- The Many Killers Of The Waynes (Youtube)
You can find an archive of all episodes at batlessons.com
Podcast Artwork by Sergio R. M. Duarte
Podcast Music by Renzo Calma
[00:00:00] Brian: Did you like that one?
[00:00:02] Alex: No No, no. This is, um, this is awful. This is the worst. This is terrible. I , I wish this is gonna make for an awful podcast. I have nothing to say. Did you like bat lessons? Episode nine Want to learn more about Batman's origins? We'll talk about that and more today. I'm Brian
and I'm Alex,
[00:00:34] Brian: and this is Bat Lessons.
Hey, Alex. Today we're going to continue and maybe conclude our discussion about the various Batman origin stories across the comics, animated shows and movies, live action movies, and really anything that I could dig up on this topic.
the last time we talked about this, it was comic heavy. Today it'll be a little bit more show and movie heavy. but there'll be a balance of both. Um, and I have a few more surprises for this one. I hope you're
[00:01:03] Alex: I'm
excited. Surprises are the best part.
[00:01:06] Brian: I do want to throw in a couple of quick disclaimers. first, I'm only describing fresh and new origin details. so like if a comic say year one describes the same thing as a previous comic, then I'm not gonna cover the repetitive stuff.
second, this won't be an exhaustive list. third, there are sources that I couldn't find to view or I didn't have the time view in its entirety. like as a, for instance, the Court of Owls as a thing that I found
references to that talk about his development before putting the suit on.
but I also discovered that it's long enough that I didn't want to read that whole series.
[00:01:43] Alex: sure.
[00:01:44] Brian: so that's
[00:01:45] Alex: think it's five issues or something like that. But yeah, I, I, it's, that, that, that's something that, I think you, you did say it at the beginning of the last, uh, episode, but, but it's, worth clarifying that we're just talking about the origin, like things leading up to it. So I, I, I feel like quarter battles doesn't really fit anyway, because it's definitely starting.
He's already Batman. He's been Batman, I think in that story for like five years.
[00:02:05] Brian: So I'll be honest that like my definition has turned out to be kind of fuzzy, especially when I listen back to the last time we talked. I oh, there's a couple of these that. 100% happened while he was Batman. It just colored what happened when he was not Batman. So, but, but I did think that the court of vows would be a perfect topic for us to handle in on its own at some point its own episode.
[00:02:28] Alex: Oh, definitely. Yeah. I think it's worth discussing. It's, it's, it's one of those, sort of seminal works, that, that everyone talks about. I, I understand why people talk about it in sort of an origin story, context because it, it was a lot of people's first, first Batman story, uh, or comic book at least.
but yeah, the, the, the reason it came up is, is Shaman, I realized, I told you that I was gonna go read some of the stories that you had brought up last time, and I went and read Shaman and like where you brought us was really just like the first half issue, right? And that's a five issue story. turns out that's okay.
Shaman's not that great. , you can, you can skip it. It's a totally skippable story. Um, but yeah,
We're just, we're just doing a survey
[00:03:08] Brian: I'm act I'm actually gonna revisit year one in this episode,
I do think that we are covering the most interesting and unique stories that will make for good dinner conversation. That's usually, I, I will say that like I'm bad at trivia in that I'm, I'm not good at. I dunno, jeopardy and, and stuff like that. I do have a lot of random stuff in my head and I think it's cuz they're good conversation topics. this is kind
down uh, alley. Okay. So while I was searching, I found a couple that go back in time.
meaning I could have covered them in the last one had I known. Uh, so this is Detective Comics 2 26 19 55. I did
[00:03:49] Alex: are going back
[00:03:50] Brian: yeah, I did remember to add their writer in the penciler cuz you asked every time and I
[00:03:56] Alex: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just something I'm interested in.
[00:03:58] Brian: No, I, but, but it also helps, like if you're, if you discover the writer was Gardner Fox, for example, like, it
[00:04:04] Alex: Oh,
[00:04:04] Brian: like the previous stuff anyway, so the writer is Edmond Hamilton.
I don't know if you know who that is and,
[00:04:09] Alex: I
don't who that is. Yeah.
[00:04:10] Brian: okay. And the penciler is Dick sprang.
[00:04:13] Alex: Yeah. He's a big deal.
[00:04:14] Brian: Okay.
[00:04:15] Alex: The, I don't have anything more to say about him except that he's important. He shows up a lot,
[00:04:19] Brian: Okay. He has an unfortunate name.
[00:04:20] Alex: Sure.
[00:04:23] Brian: okay. Uh, Can you describe what you see on the cover?
[00:04:27] Alex: Um, so December, number 2 26, detective Comics featuring when Batman was Robin. And it's, uh, . Yeah, this is, this is golden age. I can see where this is going already. It's a big green field. I think symbolizing a dark room. They're using green instead of black, uh, to show things in shadow. and there's an old film projector that's projecting a, a, a picture up on the screen.
Robin's on the left side and he's got a surprised look on his face. And he says, but, but isn't that me? And he's pointing at the screen. And on the screen is, you know, a robin, you know, swinging from, from the rooftops. And the right hand side is Batman Jolly Batman, with a big grin on his face, and he's holding up a Robin costume and he says, no, that looks like you, Robin, but it's actually me when I was your age.
And here's my Robin costume to prove it
[00:05:16] Brian: Nailed it. I, I did think it very, very funny when I saw this the first time that Batman is able to hold the entire Robin costume like, like frozen. There's just gotta be an incredible amount of starch in that uniform for, for him to be able to hold
up that way
[00:05:32] Alex: Yeah, it does look like he's holding up a, a poster or
[00:05:34] Brian: Yeah. yeah, so I, the cover kind of tells. the majority of what you need to know for this and, and why it's notable and, and like worth talking about. So just inside the cover you have this, a flashing streak of green and scarlet, a teenage typhoon in action. That's Robin the Boy Wonder Batman's great young partner.
But once years ago as a youth, Batman himself wore the Robin costume. Here's the inside story. The world has never known the dramatic tale of Batman's first adventure as a lawman. and the detective that was greater than he in the days when Batman was Robin.
So, Batman and Robin returned to the bat cave after solving a case, Alfred brings a package marked urgent for Bruce Wayne from Harvey Harris. Well, who is Harvey Harris? You ask quote, someone I knew a long time ago. A brilliant man. This package sent to Bruce Wayne. If it means what I fear, end quote. So Batman pulls a Robin costume from the box and Robin says, why?
That's the Robin costume just like mine. Yes. but made before you were born. Woo. And its delivery to Bruce Wayne can only mean one thing. That long ago I made a terrible mistake and now it endangers both of our careers. So that's quite a hook. So storytelling, flashback. So the, the story takes place before Crime Alley.
I think this is really interesting. There's a couple of stories I talk about today where Bruce's parents are still alive and he's doing Batman like things. So it takes place. Before the crime alley incident, Bruce's parents were abroad that summer and had left him alone with the butler and the maid.
Harvey Harris was a police detective that Bruce idolized. Bruce wants to prove to, to Harvey that he has detective abilities so that Harvey might teach him how to be a good detective. Bruce decides he needs to conceal his identity. He creates the Robin costume and started following Harris from the rooftops.
While he's up on the rooftops, he sees an ambush that's coming and he swings in and he saves Detective Harris. Bruce asked to learn from him and Harris decides to string him along, essentially, just long enough to warn his parents, whoever they are, cuz he's in the disguise, right? Harris says, uh, since you're brilliant as a Robin Red Breast in that costume, I'll call you Robin. the writing on this stuff is very funny to me cuz it's just like, the logic is just like being forced together. Like he has to be Robin. He couldn't just be like a dude who looks really passively close as Robin and called something else, but he's Robin.
[00:08:12] Alex: Right, right, right. No, it, it, it, the, it definitely defies logic, like we're just taking for granted that he's put on a costume that is the Robin costume. Like it even has the R on the, breast with the little Yeah. . And, and you know, in storytelling when people say like, hang a lantern on it, you have something that's ridiculous and you call out that it's ridiculous.
So that like, you know, that the writers are in on the joke with you. And so like, it helps you, extend the suspension of disbelief. This doesn't, doesn't even bother. Oh yeah. Bruce is a kid. He puts on the costume. He goes out, course. Like, why not
[00:08:44] Brian: Why not It's just, it's very funny. These, some of these early ones really crack me up. Harris spends a few minutes asking him questions that might reveal clues to determine his identity. I'll be honest, these questions are like really random questions and, Bruce is able to like, understand the, the underlying question.
Like, Oh, he said, Hmm, a clever costume and well cut and sewn too. And Robin thinks he's trying to find out who made my costume so he can trace the tailor and find out who I am. It's just stuff like that where he is just, he's so on the guard to having his identity revealed.
Uh, but Robin, course, uh, wits him. they go on to solve a tricky crime together. It's, it's a little bit irrelevant to the point of the story. Uh, and at the end of their adventure together, Harris says, I want you to wait until you've trained yourself fully before you start a career. That can be great.
Will you promise? I promise. And to show I mean it. I'll send you this Robin costume to keep, which he did satisfied that he had kept his identity from Harris throughout their time together. How had it been mailed back to Bruce Wayne if the identity of the owner had never been deduced? Well, there's a letter in the box, thank goodness.
Otherwise we'd never know. It's from Harris describing how he had deduced the boy way back was Bruce Wayne and he held onto the costume to be mailed to Bruce Wayne's residence after Harris's death quote, I realized that if you were aware that I had learned your identity, you'd always feel insecure. So I never told you and I was right for, you've since become the greatest detective of all end quote.
So this is also kind of tricky because that means well I guess it's not that tricky. He didn't know who Batman was until he knew he saw Robin was with Batman and then he was able to connect that Batman must be Bruce Wayne. Cause there's no way that Bruce Wayne is still a little kid.
[00:10:42] Alex: Huh,
[00:10:43] Brian: Okay. Yeah. That there is a little bit of stringing along there, so
[00:10:47] Alex: Okay.
[00:10:48] Brian: for him to be able to say you've since become the greatest detective of all, that's Harris saying, I know your Batman, cuz Batman's the greatest detective of all. Not Bruce Wayne. Right. Bruce Wayne's just a billionaire.
[00:11:00] Alex: Sure. Sure, sure. Sure.
[00:11:01] Brian: So the way that he deduced that Bruce Wayne is Batman is because he saw.
I don't know who Robin is in this, this storyline, but he saw Robin.
[00:11:11] Alex: Dick Grayson.
[00:11:12] Brian: Okay. So he saw Dick Grayson as Robin and he was like, ah, I recognize that cuz I've got a suit just like it in my closet. And that was Bruce Wayne.
[00:11:20] Alex: Okay.
[00:11:21] Brian: Bruce Wayne can't still be a little kid, so he's gotta be the, the old guy next to him Batman.
And that's, that's how it makes sense to me for Harris be at home and to be able to figure out that Bruce Wayne now Batman and to, to send him that stuff. Is it, there's like a little bit
[00:11:38] Alex: is so stupid. I hate
This is the worst.
I hate stuff like this. S
[00:11:44] Brian: yeah, it's, it's uh, I mean it's not quite a red con I guess, but it is like, it's, it's weird like going back in time and like writing the history that wasn't there before. Arguably that didn't need to be there. But so, Batman replies he was wrong Robin. He the only man who ever solved my secret identity.
He was a greater detective than I. And, and naturally every person who knows Batman's identity dies. So it's a foregone conclusion at the beginning that whoever wrote this letter has to either about to die or be dead.
[00:12:17] Alex: this is so stupid. So the person who wrote the letter, he's this, we've received it from the grave. This is so contrived. Okay, so let me try to summarize.
it's, it's a, it's, this is, this is clickbait. This is 1950s clickbait is what this is. Someone said we need to put on the cover that Batman was Robin.
And they're like, how are we gonna do that? I'm like, I don't know. Let's come up with a story to make it happen. So, they receive a package in the mail. It's the Robin costume. Robin says, how does that happen? And then we proceed to not explain how that happened. We explained how the package showed up.
Bruce, Bruce was in the Robin costume when he was kid, for some reason. Ran to a guy for some reason, who was able to figure out who he was. For some reason he gave that guy the costume, and then that guy mailed it to him. The end.
[00:13:05] Brian: Yes.
[00:13:05] Alex: That's the whole story. This is dumb. I hate
[00:13:12] Brian: good
[00:13:13] Alex: This is why when I was gonna host, I was gonna fast forward through like the whole golden Age because it's just like stories that are not of consequence to anyone. Not to the writer, not to the reader, not to, like, it's just completely throwaway. Th they, this is garbage. And they knew it when they wrote it because they wrote it to be garbage.
Like someone bought this off the new stand to go in the waste paper basket. I hate this
[00:13:37] Brian: I mean, I can't argue with you. I don't have anything else to say to that.
[00:13:42] Alex: Okay.
[00:13:43] Brian: next one?
[00:13:44] Alex: Oh yeah. This is gonna
[00:13:46] Brian: No, you're gonna, you're gonna like
[00:13:48] Alex: better last time.
[00:13:49] Brian: All right. Click this this
is Adventure Comics 2 75. writer is Jerry Coleman. The Penciler is George Papp, came out in 1960, so it is to be noted.
This is Adventure Comics. So this is Superman, not Detective Comics,
[00:14:04] Alex: Well, no, the Superman book is normally action comics, so I don't know why they're
Comics and what Adventure Comics was at this point in time.
[00:14:12] Brian: yeah. You're definitely fired on
all cylinders I
did not catch that.
[00:14:17] Alex: Yeah. Um, I, I assume it's some other anthology or something. who I would have to look it up. But yeah, action Comics is the, is the Superman book.
[00:14:26] Brian: it. So this one and the next one are both completely bananas. So strap in. Uh, can you describe this cover?
[00:14:34] Alex: Sure. It's, uh, mostly yellow with a big blue, you know, box in the center that has kind of a, a semi, sandsara, semi, cursive font. It's a little weird, that says adventure and then comics in, uh, like an old timey, display font where like, you, you, it's got the, the sort of like straight lines on the inside of, um, circles.
So like, you've got the, I don't know why I'm describing the font to you. August , uh, number 275 doesn't say the year. And it says, featuring the origin of the Superman Batman team. there is, um, what looks like maybe super boy, golden age super boy standing in front of a television set, or maybe a television set time machine.
There's a A C R T tube with a bunch of like switches and dials and knobs, and there's visible vacuum tubes. I think that's really interesting. There's a, there's a, a window compartment at the bottom where you can see the vacuum tubes, but at the top there is, a dial, and a dial, not like a, dial that you would physically turn, but like a dial that, would show numbers like it turns internally.
I'm sure there's a name for this type of meter
[00:15:41] Brian: it's
kind of like an
[00:15:42] Alex: yeah. What an odometer or what used to be at a, at a gas station that would tell you how, like how many gallons you pumped or whatever.
and reads numbers up and down. Yeah. and it's got years on it. So it says 19 59, 19 60, 19 61.
And then there's like a little, little indicator that shows that we're halfway between 60 and 61 Super boy is saying, see Bruce, my time telescope looks into the future. One day you, Bruce Wayne will be Batman and I Clark head will be Superman, . Uh, and then, uh, on the right hand side, we've got, I guess, Bruce Wayne Young, Bruce Wayne, he says, golly, super boy, we'll bold, know each other's secret identities and fight crime together.
And then on the TV is, Batman and, and Superman in there, in their costumes. And, and, and Clark is like ripping open his shirt. This is, this is, this episode's gonna be everything. I hate.
I didn't know
that I was signing up for
[00:16:32] Brian: don't worry. there's only a couple more of these. And then it, and then it like jumps past and it gets a
[00:16:38] Alex: This saved you a click. This is clickbait as well, right? Like someone that they needed a ridiculous cover so that you would buy it. And, and the story's gonna be trash to, to to justify the cover. Uh, okay. I'm shutting up. Go ahead and, and, and tell me about it. Brian, what happens in this book?
[00:16:54] Brian: All right. So right outta the gate, we have super boy experimenting with one of his inventions, a time telescope, which like, well, what, what is, is it, is it a McGuffin? What do you, what do you call it when you have like The key to all the problems,
[00:17:08] Alex: It's a McGuffin. Yeah.
[00:17:09] Brian: Emma Mcg Geffen.
[00:17:11] Alex: is the object or person that is the driver to the story. It's the purpose for the story to exist. Yeah.
[00:17:16] Brian: yeah, it, it seems like every problem he will ever have can be solved by just having a time telescope and looking ahead. But anyway, so he's got this invention. and while he's looking into his time telescope, he sees Batman, which reminds him Robin, his ward and young dot flashback
[00:17:34] Alex: So the time, time tale scope is the thing from the cover. It's the big cr
[00:17:37] Brian: Yes, yes,
[00:17:38] Alex: on the front of it. Yeah,
[00:17:39] Brian: exactly. Yeah, I had arranged for Professor Nichols to use a time Ray to project him from the future into the past and what is being projected before them as a master boy in a costume. It's Robin and Robin says, hello, Clark Kent. My name is Robin. I've come from the future, which is like, come on.
Is that, is that really what Robin would say? If I think I would be like, holy crap, what's going on? Who are you? What is this? Not I'm from the future. It's just, it's
[00:18:08] Alex: Well, he's, he's arranged to, to be projected back in time. So presumably he knows that's gonna happen.
arranged for Professor Nichols
to use a
[00:18:17] Brian: you're totally right. It's projected from future, not he's being, I've read it as like they projected to the future to see him and they were
seeing it in
[00:18:27] Alex: no, no, no.
[00:18:29] Brian: yeah. Yeah. So that does make sense. He would totally
[00:18:31] Alex: time traveling here.
[00:18:32] Brian: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Silly. Anyway, Bruce ends up crossing past with Clark, Kent and Smallville. Since Bruce's family alive, family moved into town, Bruce quickly impresses everyone at school. He's smart, attractive, physically fit. He even starts dating a girl named Lana Lang your face.
[00:18:54] Alex: is
this is awful. So I, I , I, I'm so glad I've pulled up the comic because , because I'm like, wait, what? I thought for sure Robin has time projected himself into the past and they're gonna go on an adventure or something together. And you started this total non-sequitur. They're doing something different.
That's not what happened. We have a panel where , we've like some non non-deterministic amount of time has passed. And super boy's thinking to himself, he's rubbing his gem and he goes, it was a thrill meeting Robin, the boy wonder, and working with him, I wonder, will I ever meet Batman or rather Bruce Wayne before our careers become linked in the future?
So he's met Robin, they've had some sort of conversation and that's over one panel time traveling.
[00:19:35] Brian: Mm-hmm. .
[00:19:35] Alex: and
meeting one panel is
[00:19:36] Brian: Yeah, you're right.
[00:19:37] Alex: Anyways, this is the worst.
[00:19:40] Brian: Bruce Wayne shows up. Yeah. But so thi this connects in because, so, while Superman is out of town saving people, Bruce Wayne is cozying up to Lana Lang and her dad's exploring trophies, meaning mass and costumes and native people's things that the dad had discovered while he was out exploring.
And out the window across the street, there's a ruckus with a bad guy in police. which by the way, if you want to get to that, is pretty ridiculous. So yeah. J you wanna describe criminal?
[00:20:08] Alex: it looks like it came from, Battle bots. it's got, treads like a tank and I want to call it like a plow in the front, but it's convex, not concave, like outward barrel, like it's a cord barrel, like it's gonna ram something.
It's kinda shaped like a foot almost.
it's got, you know, two barns, like a, like a, you know, 1950s robot. Like a, uh, what do you call the doctor who Robots?
[00:20:33] Brian: Yeah.
[00:20:34] Alex: kinda like a doic. Looks like a do, like, it was made out of like plungers and trash cans, I believe you. And then it's got on its chest, uh, a bunch of spikes and it goes
[00:20:45] Brian: Yeah. So the, it's it another golden age thing. It strikes me as funny because it is what people of 1960 thought the future would look like. This is what future robots are gonna look like in their what? Dox on the bottom and cybermen on the top, if you're familiar with, Dr. Who. I thought that was, that was pretty funny. So anyway, that's the bad guy out the window and the police are shooting and reminder that Bruce is hanging out with Lana Lang, uh, and. Dad's trophy area and Lana's dad's trophy area. So, Bruce wants to jump into action, but Lana tells him to put a witch doctor's costume on since it's supposed to have magical properties of protection. So Bruce does, he swings down, foils the bad guy, and naturally the Smallville Clarion, which is the name of the newspaper, by the way, Clarion is a kind of trumpet. So the Smallville Clarion's headline the next day is Flying Fox NAB's Armored Crook. Mysterious Costumed Figure disappears after Daring Sortie.
You gotta love those 1960s newspaper headlines, right? So crazily Lana convinces her dad to let Bruce Wayne keep the costume. I don't understand. I, I cannot imagine my dad having like a, a museum quality stuff that he's collected from his adventures and stuff and being like, dad, one of my friends really wants this.
Will you give it to him? And my dad being like, yeah, sure. Like, there's just no way that, that her dad cared that much about the costume. But anyway, we just hand waved that that happens, that, that, that Lana has that much control over her dad or whatever. Um, and then of course Bruce asks Lana to the junior prom.
So the, I also have issues with how old Bruce is. Comic when his parents are still alive, right? she, she accepts on the condition that Bruce figures out what super boy's secret identity is. You're about the only one I know clever enough to do it. By the way, Alex literally is holding his ha his face in his hands while I'm reading this.
super boy trying to catch some crooks during the getaway, the flying Fox appears Bruce, obviously to help out. He ends up helping a bunch and super boy flies down to thank him. Hmm. Just as I suspected, my x-ray vision reveals that you are Bruce Wayne, son of Dr. Wayne
Yes. I've decided to assume the identity of flying Fox to fight crime. May I work with you? Super boy eagerly agrees. He thinks that he can give future Batman some real training. So this is also pretty contrived. So they trade radios and they have a short talk cuz that's how they need to talk to each other. but Bruce is recording the whole conversation. So one thing I didn't write in here in the script, is that there's some bad guys off to the side.
They see all of this happen and they're like, oh wow, the Flying Fox has a radio and if we can get a hold of that radio we can trick super boy into being caught in one of our traps. So they're all after this radio. So then Bruce had been recording the whole conversation. He goes back to his, his whatever house is not the manner cuz he's in Smallville.
But he goes back to his house, he uses an oscilloscope to map the unique pattern of super boy's voice so he can use it to identify him later. So put a pin in that super boy and flying Fox meet up to plan their next moves around. Some, some bad dudes that are, causing trouble. Um, after they split up, the bad dudes themselves jump.
Bruce beat him up also. How old is he for them to be okay to just beat the tar out of this kit anyway? Uh, and they take the radio
[00:24:35] Alex: Right. You could tell I have zero patience for
this story Like
he said, he asked me a question. I have nothing to say. is okay.
[00:24:44] Brian: Skipping a few details. The bad guys
have a big
ball of kryptonite and they end up using it against Super Boy. Flying Fox uses some clever MacGyver skills to blow up the kryptonite. So as Super Boy flies away with the bad guys, flying Fox shouts out to Super Boy to tell Clark Kent to see him tonight. It's important in Bruce's room. Later on he shows Clark that super boy.
Um, and he have the same voice pattern in the oscilloscope, proving that they are one and the same. Clark says, come with me. I'll show you why it doesn't bother me that you found out. We're like, if I was Bruce, I'd be thinking Super boys about to murder me, cuz I know his secret identity and he's just walking into a trap.
But. Back to Super Boy's Lab. See Bruce, my time telescope looks into the future. One day you, Bruce Wayne will be Batman. Bruce, the very responsible kid, tells Clark that he's too young to be trusted with the knowledge of Super Boy slash Superman's true identity. Clark must use Dr.
Wayne's equipment to hypnotize Bruce into forgetting about Super boy's identity. They do that and the issue ends. Did you like that one?
[00:26:00] Alex: No No, no. This is, um, this is awful. This is the worst. This is terrible. I , I wish this is gonna make for an awful podcast. I have nothing to say. so, how, how familiar are you with Super Boy conceptually at this time?
[00:26:22] Brian: Very, almost nothing.
[00:26:24] Alex: Okay. So Super Boy is, is I believe, and I'm, I have intentionally avoided this, this you know how little patience I have for Golden Age Batman, um, take that and then just like reduce it, you know, by tenfold. And that's how much patience I have for Golden Age Superman. it is, I infinitely more ridiculous and stupid, but I believe that that super boy is just young, young Superman.
So this is Clark Kent, and if you know anything about that, then you know that like Lana Lang is like his love interest, right? So that's his girlfriend,
[00:26:59] Brian: Oh, I should say, I do know, I do know some stuff about the Smallville TV show. My, my wife and I did watch so
but I don't that, to me, that's not super boy, that's just young Superman.
[00:27:10] Alex: Well, I mean, think a lot of it from from, yeah. From this. Yeah. are you familiar with the concept of the Legion of Superheroes?
[00:27:18] Brian: we may have talked about that in a previous episode. I've recently started listening through our episodes again to kind of myself what we've talked about. And there is a point where we talk about the precursor ideas to, like the Justice League.
[00:27:32] Alex: Uh, no. You're thinking of the, just the Society of America.
[00:27:35] Brian: Okay. I thought there
[00:27:36] Alex: think we've talked about the Legion of Superheroes.
It's, it's, yeah, it's possible. But the, the Legion of Superheroes is, uh, uh, I'm not super familiar. I'm gonna butcher it cuz I've never read anything with it. But I know that it is a bunch of superheroes that are from the future that for whatever interest reason, taken interest in Super Boy Superman's childhood and like, I believe Super Boy goes and lives with them in the future.
And so the whole idea is that it's this like sci-fi future comic series where Clark Kent is living in the future and then like goes back in time to continue living his childhood, right? So there's, and and I believe that, that, that was happening around this time. So that's probably why he has the television set to be able to see into the future.
and so this is not, to me a not a Batman story, right? This is a Superman story where someone's like, okay, well if he can see the future, then he knows that Batman's a thing and you know that he knows that we're friends. And so like, what would a child do? What would Child Clark Kent do if he knew that, that he was going to befriend Bruce?
And so they're just contriving a, a reason for them to interact with each other. And it's just yet another example of like, well, what if Bruce was a hero before? He was a hero? So like in the last story, he has a Robin costume and is just s heroing for some reason. Here he has the fox costume.
[00:29:05] Brian: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:07] Alex: It's just the whole thing is just contrived, right?
Like it's, it's a, they, they're finding a reason to like, tie in with like some of the logic with the sup Legion of superhero stuff. They're, they're making a clickbait title, and then they're just back solving from there. oh man, you've, this is, um, I don't, I don't have anything productive to say. you know, we, we, when you, did the story where, father Thomas, uh, wears the Batman costume beforehand, it is equally, yeah, it is equally stupid and silly. Like, there, there's no reason. It's just like adding this thing, like what if there was Batman before Batman?
And, and I should hate it, but just the, the pure fact of like, I've read some stories that like reference back to this and like there are modern writers that are playing with that, makes me hate it less, which is stupid because it doesn't have anything to do with like, I think the validity of the story in question.
but, but oh man, I do, I hate this. This is the worst.
[00:30:05] Brian: We got one more
[00:30:08] Alex: Okay.
[00:30:10] Brian: uh.
[00:30:12] Alex: Well, well, uh, I'll try to save it in the edit, uh
[00:30:19] Brian: uh,
[00:30:19] Alex: cause. Oh my God.
[00:30:21] Brian: So me
[00:30:22] Alex: tell me,
all about it.
[00:30:23] Brian: so this one is Super boy 180 2. 1972 is it came out. The writer is Leo Dorfman and the Penciler is Bob Brown,
[00:30:34] Alex: Okay.
[00:30:35] Brian: which I only think about Bob Brown Chevrolet, which is a Iowa Chevy dealership that.
[00:30:41] Alex: Yeah. I've I've never heard of either of these guys.
[00:30:43] Brian: Do you wanna start by describing the cover?
[00:30:46] Alex: Sure. We've moved on to a much more modern art style, which makes sense. We're in the seventies. the predominant color is blue. Across the top. We've got a, a big yellow bar, and inside of it, it says Super boy and big colors, number 180 2. February, 52. Big pages don't take less. Only 25 cents. there's sort of two planes, right? There's one where we've got sort of like ghostly spirits in the background, and then we've got a foreground where we have people sort of, in the flesh. So, um, I, I assume there's like some sort of future or past or something. We're, we're shadowing, foreshadowing backs, shadowing, and the ghosts are, yeah, on the left we've got Superman and he says, Batman, it's time to reveal our secret to the tragedy that brought us together when we were boys.
And then on the right, it's Batman and he's got his arms folded and he looks very angry, kind of like me right now. And then in the foreground, , we've got super boy on the left and he looks very sad. and on the right it, we look like, ah, I just fucking . It looks like a teenage Batman. But there's no bat on his chest, which makes me so angry.
And he's got a speech, bubbl. He says, my mother and father is dead. It's your fault, super boy. Why did you let it happen? I'll never forgive you. yep. And they're standing in front of tombstones on a grassy hill, how the boy became the Batman Extra, the amazing tots of Smallville. I'm guessing that's the backup story.
So primary story is how the boy became the Batman. Yeah. Tell me all about it, Brian.
[00:32:09] Brian: yeah, let's do it. So it's es essentially, yeah. So sometime ago at an emergency meeting of DC editors, after all these years, we real story lost in the files. This could be dynamite. I say keep it buried. No, our readers deserve the truth. Let's lay our cards on the table and tell it like it is, like it really was. So that
[00:32:34] Alex: they're
[00:32:35] Brian: yeah,
[00:32:36] Alex: And the dude, the dude who says, no, he's slamming his fist on the table. He is got a cigar, he's tie. They're all in suits, right? They've got the, the, the tray with like drinks on him. All white dudes. yeah. They're discussing whether we're gonna get to learn this, uh, story or
[00:32:52] Brian: And I read this almost like a heads up apology. Like, what, when has DC ever portrayed themselves in a comic at the very
[00:33:03] Alex: Well, more often than you would think.
[00:33:04] Brian: Really?
[00:33:05] Alex: y yeah, I'm not, I'm not an expert, but I know that, breaking the third wall, fourth wall, breaking the veil in this way Not, not, um, as uncommon as you would think. Um, it's happened a few times,
[00:33:16] Brian: that surprises me. So now for the secret story of the decade. Let's begin with Kent store in Smallville. careful with those glasses. Clark. So Clark Z, he is cleaning glasses and stuff, then he sees on a newspaper it says, Wayne murdered Gotham Tragedy. And he goes, oh, that headline I didn't know.
And then he's like taking off and I'm guessing this is his dad, but he is like, where are you going? You promised to work in the store today? He goes, sorry dad, there's something more important I have to do. And as he's changing into his super boy suit and running out the back door, You hear his parents back there when it comes to doing chores. Martha, he's just like any other youngster with one slight difference. Jonathan, our son, is super boy with a super boy's responsibilities. You're gonna hate this because I know where it's going. You're gonna hate this so much. I thought it was hilarious and ridiculous.
[00:34:14] Alex: Okay,
so super, super boy's flying through the air and he says the, that newspaper story is two months old. It's too late to do anything now, but maybe there's some way I can help. There's Gotham City ahead and here's the mansion. Wonder what the poor kid is doing. I'll check with my x-ray vision.
[00:34:30] Brian: he's able to see that there's someone who's sneaking in a tunnel from the bottom and he's like, ah, I'll drill up the basement to, to get to get them. And the guy comes up and gets the shit zapped out of him. then the door opens, there's a silhouette, and a guy says, you see, you weren't needed. Super boy. so the bad guy is being electrocuted. And, uh, and then the, the light comes on and, the guy is saying, Bruce, Wayne doesn't need anyone's help to catch such vermin
[00:35:02] Alex: It's just a harmless trap. I invented to foil, wouldbe burglars. What are you doing here? You usually hang around Smallville.
[00:35:08] Brian: so Superman or Super Boy thinks that's where we had an adventure last, last year while he was on vacation, but I hypnotized him into forgetting it. Then he says, I just read about your parents' death. The paper said you were living here with your rich uncle.
How did it all happen?
[00:35:26] Alex: were coming home from a movie when we were held up by a thug. He killed my father and mother in cold blood, mother, dad. And so we flashback and we're seeing crime Alley, and there's a dude who's shooting in the mo. In one moment, I'd lost my father and mother. I'll never forget that night. Never. You won't escape, sob.
You'll pay for this. You and all the others like you. I swear it. And the dude's running away. Where were you at the time? You're supposed to be the sworn enemy of crime.
[00:35:51] Brian: I was away from Earth on a mission. Even Super boy can't be everywhere at the same time, but I'll help you track down that murderer. I do think it's kind of funny that he's not just like, yeah, how the heck am I supposed to know about every time any random people are gonna get shot in a, in an alley, people get shot anyway, no, no, no.
His excuse is he was not on the earth like he was so far . Like it's just a excuse too big.
[00:36:18] Alex: And, and we've established here that, that Bruce has his con significance to Super Boy because they've gone on adventures together, but that it should not be the case, vice versa, because Super Boy has
[00:36:30] Brian: Hypnotized him.
[00:36:31] Alex: hypnotized him to, uh, forget it. Uh, so why does he think that Super Boy owes him anything? So, yeah, Bruce says, forget it, revenge belongs to me and no one else go on.
Take this hood to the police. You can claim credit for catching him. I'm after the big wheels of crime.
[00:36:47] Brian: So then super boy, he's carrying away this bad guy and he thinks to himself, he's got courage, self-reliance and ingenuity, but he's still an amateur. And then he, he calls down to him. Okay. But I'll be back. I've got some questions for you,
[00:37:02] Alex: why should the Mighty Super Boy be interested in me? he says, which, uh, yeah, why should
[00:37:07] Brian: So just to summarize a little bit here, super Boy is, Flying away. He's thinking to himself and he thinks about the time scope and what he'd seen. Uh, like there's such a great team and he's kind of, essentially it's alluding to how he's thinking about like what happens between now and then. Cuz this dude I just talked to is like all about vengeance and anger and stuff.
And that's not what I saw in the future, Batman. And so he comes
[00:37:32] Alex: So
he's got the time scope, he's standing in front of the same machine. 20 years have passed and this is part of Super Boy. Apparently he's got this machine where he has a C R T where he can see the future. That's just, that's just how Super boy stories go,
[00:37:44] Brian: Yep
[00:37:44] Alex: for years. Okay.
[00:37:46] Brian: so after he drops off, uh, the dude at the police station, he comes back to Wayne Mansion and he's got Bruce who's doing all this acrobatics. He's lifting weights and he's working at his gym. He's karate chopping stuff. He is just saying like, ah, I'm, I'm getting ready to fight crime. super boy uses X-ray vision and he sees inside of the vaulting horse that he's got a police radio.
He goes and checks it out
hear that bad news is happening. So super boy's like, I gotta get outta here. And he's, I gotta go fight crime. And so Super Boy takes off. And in the meantime you've got Bruce who's pinning up this big. it looks like a, a Zodiac star chart thing. He says The emergency call I'm waiting for is still to come, but it's written in the stars.
[00:38:34] Alex: So yeah, Bruce is looking at this star chart that he's hung on the wall there's a dude in a toga and he's holding a vase and he's pouring water on an antelope for some reason, and there's a fish. and he says, today's February 18th, the last day of Aquarius.
The crime I'm waiting for must happen before this day ends. So Bruce is, really into astrology.
[00:38:55] Brian: Yep. Also notice, the squiggle lines at the bottom. then,
[00:38:59] Alex: read that as like the ocean maybe, or water.
[00:39:02] Brian: yeah, It'll make more sense in a minute, but I, I need to point this out to you for you to, to make the connection. so then Bruce hears, bad news on the radio, the police radio. He throws his suit on of like, what suit Cause it's not the Batman suit, but he throws some kind of suit on.
takes off. So now, in the meantime, super boy is saving some people and he sees that, people are calling out that a trailer truck had plunged into the bay. And the emergency crane isn't powerful enough to lift it. Sidebar, what a piece of crap. Emergency crane.
it's, it must just be a crane. It cannot be an emergency crane cuz it's just, this is an emergency. Crane's not helping Anyway, so yeah. Never a dull moment. super boy jumps in, he pulls the truck out and now what do you see in the bottom right panel?
[00:39:52] Alex: the squigglies, but it's, it looks like two Ws, inside each other. Yeah. They're totally not the same squigglies at all. Two squiggly lines,
[00:40:00] Brian: That's the sign of Aquarius, the water carrier on the zodiac chart. It was put there by the Zodiac Killer.
[00:40:08] Alex: Oh, wow. What year is
[00:40:15] Brian: 72.
[00:40:16] Alex: So that's post Zodiac, right?
[00:40:18] Brian: That's around the same time.
[00:40:19] Alex: Why are, we're doing a comic book for children about the Zodiac killer
[00:40:23] Brian: It's, uh, popular.
[00:40:25] Alex: a different Zodiac killer? Maybe charitably.
[00:40:29] Brian: I, I think it's the same in name, but the behavior is different. I mean, he leaves clues that are all like referencing these zodiac symbols.
[00:40:38] Alex: Okay.
[00:40:38] Brian: so he is got, the, zodiac symbols always match the way the victims died.
The scorpion in an antique shop where the proprietor was killed by a poison ring, Capricorn, the goat where the man died in a car, which rammed a fence, which is like, these are pretty rough. Sagittarius, the archer at the scene of a fatal shooting. th this is the point that I want you to see.
I want you to be like, oh, the zodiac. you can edit
[00:41:07] Alex: and, and he killed the Bruce's parents, is the,
[00:41:11] Brian: That's the crux of the story, is that he's convinced that the Zodiac is who killed his parents because he found a mark that matches the zodiac patterns in the, in crime alley after his parents had been killed.
So he's convinced that the Zodiac is the killer of his parents, and he's down, or he's out to get him. So, jumping ahead, way ahead. super boy decides he's gonna team up with him and he's gonna give him a better suit.
[00:41:38] Alex: later, after they emerged.
Super boy says, and now for my little gift, a few improvements for that childless disguise you wore at the pier yesterday. We have Bruce standing in a suit, um, and it's got a, you know, a dark cape.
It's either black or dark blue. And, uh, he's got blue gloves and blue boots, and it's a baton costume except instead of gray, it's purple. So like his leggings are purple, his chest is purple. There's no bat on his chest. he doesn't have ears, so it's just kind of a cowl that comes over the top of his head.
it's a little weird. and Super Boy says The mask and hood prote will protect your secret identity. Those especially magnetized boots and gloves will climb the steepest walls. He's like, so he is Spider-Man. He scales walls with magnets in his hands. and hidden pockets in your Cape will hide your anti-crime weapons.
You look great. Bat lad. He calls him Bat Lad. Oh, good.
[00:42:28] Brian: Yep. we'll just continue to jump ahead, to.
[00:42:32] Alex: Okay.
[00:42:33] Brian: just kind of the point of it at the end is that he, they do a bunch of work. This, the story's pretty long and it kind of like meanders, but he eventually figures out that the Zodiac was not the killer of his parents.
I thought that was just absolutely bananas and we had to read about it.
[00:42:47] Alex: Yeah, this is wild. this is the sort of thing, so this is in the seventies, right? And, Marvel Comics, really kicks it off in like 19 63, 19 64. So that's when you have Fantastic Four and Spider-Man and all these sorts of things happening. And, they are really taking, continuity seriously in those books in a way that DC is not.
Right. And so stuff like this is the reason that Crisis on Infinite Earth happens , right? Is because every writer is just kind of doing whatever the hell they want. And like, this is not a Batman book, this is a super boy book, just like with the last one. It's, it's like back solving from the like, okay, super boy, he can see the future.
Super boy knows that they're gonna be a team in the future. What would that be like? You know? so we are, we're inventing some, it's, it's so silly. It's very, very silly and I shouldn't hate it so much. I'm, I'm being mean, but like, they're, they're inventing a way for them to have an adventure together. and in and of itself, that's not necessarily bad, but it, it, it's sort of like rewriting, you know, the, the training and, the, the sort of lead up and the motivation for Batman and what, what gets him from, you know, Bruce Wayne to, to Batman.
and so, you know, if you're re if you're reading this and whatever other book, and they don't really add up, and people are like, this doesn't make any sense. And it's, I I think it's, you know, very ripped from the headlines of the zeitgeist that they're, they're doing this zodiac killer. I can't believe that you would, target that at children because that's a pretty grizzly, like awful, piece of history.
Um, that would've been like very fresh in people's minds. So I can see why you would like this very much because of that. Cuz
you're really big on Zodiac, right?
[00:44:26] Brian: yeah, no, I, I am big into true crime in general, but like mostly I just couldn't believe that they did this. Can you go back to the cover?
[00:44:34] Alex: Yes. I'm looking at the cover.
[00:44:36] Brian: What's Bruce wearing?
[00:44:37] Alex: He's wearing a Batman costume without a bat on it.
[00:44:39] Brian: Does he ever wear that in the issue?
[00:44:41] Alex: No, he does not And that's, that's . That's also unfortunately a pretty normal, I, it it's clickbait. This is clickbait. We're in clickbait era of comics.
[00:44:54] Brian: You got
Now just cut right here. Things should get a lot better. We're, we're past the
there. There's a couple of sillier things, but they're not ridiculous like this
[00:45:06] Alex: I was gonna say, you know, if, if last episode you, uh, you really set the bar high, uh, you
I, I, I said, oh, you know, Brian, you've, you've, you've outdone yourself and, and now here, I, I think, um, maybe we've gotten a little too far. the depths of, uh, cuz like, I think Yeah. Like this is an origin insofar as it's a thing that happens before Batman is Batman and could be read as like, leading in somehow, like it does include the death of the parents.
But, this is, this is schlock, this is not, these aren't
origins. These are, this is random stuff.
[00:45:40] Brian: Yeah. Well, they're also not in Batman stories. Like they're, they're in super
[00:45:45] Alex: no, it's true. It's true. Yep. Yep.
[00:45:49] Brian: Okay, so now I want to revisit Batman year one, because you were absolutely right. I should have listened to you. I made a mistake last time I, I just should have listened to you when you were asking those questions.
In my original run on research, I was originally just looking for how the Waynes were murdered, and I booked, marked the scene in this graphic novel right where they died night. I had that in my, uh, original notes. yeah, so when I came back and I did the writeup, I forgot all about the pages that I skipped because of the bookmark.
my definition of what Batman's origins were had changed to everything that happened before he put his suit on. So I skipped a whole bunch of stuff that was really important to that in year one. So,
[00:46:32] Alex: Yeah.
[00:46:32] Brian: and I'm sure our listeners are going to send in corrections otherwise, and they may have done so already because we released monthly.
here we go. So in the first cell is an issue. they're the first cell in the issue. We've got, Bruce shows up dressed as a kind of a, a red light district, Gotham City tough guy. He's wearing an Army jacket. He's got blue jeans stocking cap. he provokes a, um, I'll be honest, I don't know if these are all the PC terms.
This is, these are old terms, but he provokes a pimp that was, jerking a prostitute around. He was being unhappy with her. the, the pimp pulls a knife, takes a stab at Bruce, but Bruce is analyzing the situation in detail. He dodges the attack, takes this pimp down pretty quickly, and then, uh, his whole posse attacks him.
Um, one stabs him in the leg, which is like kind of bad news for, uh, Bruce Wayne here. So Bruce ends up fighting them all. He was just intending on fighting the bad guy. Ends up a bunch of seemingly innocent bystanders and Selena. Kyle jumps down from the window to fight Bruce. He gets shot by the police.
and then they, uh, arrest him and they get him in the car and they're driving him away and he wrecks the police's car in his attempt to escape, which is exactly what I described in the Shaman book. so after a successfully escaping Bruce, returns to Wayne Manor study bleeding, his mind goes back to his parents dying in Crime Alley, as he thinks of it.
A bat crashes through the window of the study and lands on a bust of Thomas Wayne, which inspires Bruce to become Batman. So note year one is written before Shaman. It was released. Uh, so Shaman, the Man who Falls and Batman four 30 were 1989. That was around the time the first, um, movie came out, right?
But year one was years before that, 1987. So any of the details that I talked about in those were actually year one references that they expanded on.
[00:48:39] Alex: that's right. So like the crashing, the bat crashing through the window.
That's a Frank
Miller. That's, that's, that's year one.
[00:48:44] Brian: Yeah.
[00:48:44] Alex: He's
[00:48:45] Brian: Which, you did call out, in the other episode. I just missed it.
[00:48:49] Alex: no worries,
this is an incredible book, by the way. We don't actually see him put it on the but the first time he shows up in the costume is, is, is so, so good. There's this, this page where he has this bomb and he blows up the wall and these, uh, you know, criminals that, uh, you know, crime families that are having a dinner together.
And, and he blows up the wall and he's standing on the rubble and it's all dark in the room. And so you like see his silhouette and he says, ladies, gentlemen, you have eaten well. he just, he shows up to scare the piss out of him. I'm butchering it, but it's such, it's such a, it's such a good moment of like, yeah, we don't see him put it on the costume, but when he dawns the costume for the first time is like, very badass.
[00:49:25] Brian: Yeah, definitely. I agree. Year one's incredible. most of my exposure has been through the, animated, movies or TV shows or whatever, and, uh, year one is excellent. Um, I also really like the long Halloween, But, uh, yeah, year one's excellent. it's also, um, really interesting because the story is, is similar to the Batman in that the, the movie, the Batman that just came out because it covers a lot of Gordon storyline as well,
[00:49:52] Alex: Mm-hmm
[00:49:53] Brian: also very interesting in the, in the storytelling.
Okay, so let's jump ahead to 1992. Batman, the animated series episode. Nothing to fear. . so Bruce visits, uh, Gotham University bumps into Dr. Long in an elevator Long.
Tells Bruce that he attended university with Thomas Wayne, who had big plans for his son. Bruce is talking to Long. So Bruce assures long that his father would've been at least pleased that Wayne Enterprises had made great profits.
But Dr. Long Huffs in disagreement, he believes that Bruce has disgraced the Wayne family by acting nothing more than a rich playboy. Adding that it was fortunate that Thomas had not lived to see what had become of his son. I'm jumping ahead.
Batman is battling the scarecrow. He gets blasted with the fear toxin at this time, the building is burning and Batman sees his father and the fire Thomas says, Bruce, you have failed me. You have disgraced the family name. during his fear recovery in Wayne Manor, Bruce holds a framed photo of his parents, the voice of his father ringing in his ears.
You have disgrace the family name. Alfred sees Bruce in distress and asks him if he's feeling all right. Bruce shares with him the hallucinations that he's experiencing due to the scarecrows fear toxin. says, I'm, I'm shaming the family name. Alfred grabs him by the shoulders and says, that's rubbish.
Your father would be proud of you because I'm so proud of you. And a rare warm moment is shared between the two. And at the end of the episode, Bruce leaves roses on his parents' graves. So, uh, this story obviously takes place after he is Batman. but I thought was, was worth telling because it, references how much the, events of his history of, of his parents dying really weighs on him.
And it is a driving force, which, which doesn't show up that often at Batman other than like the or origin story. But this, this illustrates to the audience how much, um, he thinks about his parents' death. and there's one other thing that I thought was interesting. This is the first episode of the series to feature Batman's past only the 1989 movie by Tim Burton in an episode of Superpowers Team.
The last season of Super Friends, incidentally, also featuring the Scarecrow the main villain explored the Dark Knight's origins outside the comic medium before this episode, so I thought that was pretty interesting.
[00:52:27] Alex: That totally makes sense. I didn't realize that Superpower Powers team was just super friends. That, that makes everything click for me. Uh, that they had just renamed it for its last season. I, that, that my mind was so blown that there was a TV show we hadn't heard of last time.
Um, and it is kind of wild that we, we are, you know, many, many years in on Batman and he's had many adaptations by this point. But, you know, sort of what we talk about, which is the, adaptations of the origin are way, way overdone. Like every movie and every TV show does it. And then, and like we kind of get, you know, we, we balk at the idea of a new adaptation doing it.
Like we had a whole conversation topic on the last episode of the show of like, should we be retelling the origins? But at this time in the nineties, not that long ago, um, I guess it wasn't long ago, we're old newsflash. it hadn't been retread that many times. And, and when they do it, they're actually doing it in a very tasteful way.
They're not just starting at the beginning and doing a flashback, they're contextualizing it, you know, in, in using it to contextualize a, uh, um, you know, a present day story. one that has a lot of heart. You know, we, we see, Bruce and, and Alfred work through their emotions together. So, yeah, very well.
[00:53:35] Brian: All right. 1993, just a year later, the movie Mask of the Fantasm. So this is the first, potentially the only, uh, movie that's based on ba No, it's not the only, there's, this is the first of a couple, uh, movies that were, based on
[00:53:54] Alex: based on animated series.
[00:53:55] Brian: based on the animated series. There's also one with, Mr.
Fries. I can't think of what it's called right now.
[00:54:00] Alex: Yeah. And there was also, the Batman Beyond One, I don't know if you count that, but it was all the same people working on it, which was the return of the Joker or whatever. This is the only one that, um, had a theatrical release. which was not the original plan. It was gonna be straight to straight to video.
and they had made like the first 15 minutes of the movie or something like that and, and did a screening with executives who really liked it and decided to pivot it to, to be theatrical, which was a big deal cuz they had to reanimate the whole thing. . but yeah, this one, this one got a theatrical release.
[00:54:30] Brian: So thi this one's got an interesting take on the origin story. So, Batman's in college, he visits his parents' graves, which it, reads as something he does frequently. Um, and while he is there, , uh, I don't know how to pronounce her name. Andrea. Andrea Beaumont is also visiting mother's grave. She's talking to her in the, to her mother.
And comments on Bruce also being at the cemetery. Hmm. I've seen him on campus. Very moody, very moody. Cute though. So then sh she and, uh, Bruce end up talking. She's charming. She leaves. so at this time, Bruce is already fighting crime in a ski mask, but he's not yet Batman. one day while practicing martial arts, Andrea shows up to see that, why he hasn't called her yet.
Cuz they, they met, they seemed to have a good time. They hit it off. Why didn't you call me? he's a little condescending to her and, and she ends up flipping him with her own martial arts experience. And that was the trick for him. Nice footwork. Can you dance too? Andrea introduces Bruce to her dad was cuz our dating now, now, another wealthy businessman.
Things are getting serious with Andrea. so it's suggested
that Andrea's dad might be working with the mob or something and on the way out, notices some weird stuff, and he ends up beating up a motorcycle gang, and he kind of gets beaten up himself, and Andrea's pretty un unhappy about it.
and after that, he starts questioning to himself what he is doing. I've gotta be one or the other. I can't have it both ways. I can't put myself in the, on the line as long as there's someone waiting for me to come home. Um, he's very conflicted on whether he should become Batman or if he should continue.
And, uh, with his relationship with Andrea. So Bruce goes to his parents' grave for a talk. Essentially he's asking for forgiveness from his parents. if he goes back on his vow and he says, It just doesn't hurt so bad anymore. You can understand that, can't you? I know I made a promise, but I didn't see this coming.
I didn't count on being happy. Please tell me it's okay. And then Andrea shows up and says, maybe they already have, maybe they sent me. So soon after that, Bruce proposes, she obviously immediately says, yes, a critical line in the story. she. I never thought this would happen. I always felt like, like he never knew what to do with me cuz it wasn't in the plan. And Bruce responds, you are now I'm changing the plan, which is essentially abandoning his plan to become Batman. seemingly the next day Alfred brings the engagement ring. And a note to Bruce, it says, left with dad too young need time. Forget about me. It was a pretty short pre terse. and right after that, Bruce puts on the bat suit for the first time. So it, it's, it's an interesting take on like how over time he had fallen in love, he was starting to see life a little differently and he was willing to give up becoming a, a crime fighter.
And then only because she leaves that, that, that dream is dashed. But he comes right up to the line on ditching his vow.
[00:57:44] Alex: I forget, exactly how this movie goes. I'm, I'm embarrassed to say, but, um, and Andrea is, is the Fantasm. Right. And he does find out that she's the fantasm, right?
[00:57:55] Brian: Yeah,
[00:57:56] Alex: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that, that's part of the go, go ahead.
[00:57:59] Brian: Well it's years later. That's the, the difference is So I didn't talk about any of that cuz it is well into him
[00:58:05] Alex: Sure, sure, sure, sure.
[00:58:06] Brian: But it, it does do that whole circular thing. It's, it's like the return of the Joker where the joker's actually someone you knew from long ago and blah, blah, blah. But um, but yeah, go ahead.
[00:58:18] Alex: I think, you know, the idea that, that Bruce has a, a, a love, um, in his life, early on, and that, that in a way defines the, the, this goes along with what I was saying about, Batman the Night, which is the Chip Zdarsky series that just wrapped up, on the, on the last episode.
where I think that, relationships and, and sort of like, sort of the social interactions that, that Bruce has, forming his, attitude and forming the way that he acts as Batman makes sense to me. Like I think, he is a fairly, reclusive person, kind of turned inward, not re reclusive is a long word.
He's, um, he holds, uh, everyone at arm's length, right? He doesn't like to make social connections with people. He likes to keep his secret identity, not just, with the public, but even with people he trusts, right? He holds everyone at arm's length and, and, and, that's kind of cool as this sort of like mysterious, like, you know, ninja man that like, we don't know everything about, but it's also. You know, something that, I think if, if you really want to engage with the character, you need to have the, the sort of context, right? So like what are the, the sort of like, how was he burned in the past? How was he spur in the past? How was, you know, what, what, what causes him to be unwilling to open up?
Right? And so seeing, seeing a window into that, um, makes sense to me. Right. so I, I appreciate stories like this,
[00:59:33] Brian: Yeah, a hundred percent.
just a few years later, 1995 Batman Forever. Um, this is the first Joel Schumacher movie, Batman's, played by Val Kilmer. uh, yeah, I love this movie. It's super good. so Bruce Wayne is dating Dr. Chase Meridian, a psychologist in, uh, this version of Batman's storyline.
Throughout the movie, she seems to be piecing together. Bruce's psyche, for example, a ro shark blob framed in her office. Bruce sees a bat. I would say that anyone watching Batman seeing it would, it's a, it's a fucking bat. Anyway, um, one, one notable thing is that, chase Meridian, so her name is a triple.
Not only did she chase after Batman, but as a psychologist was involved in chasing the meridian. In other words, chasing after the halfway point in human beings. One that is neither too high or too low, i e bringing balance to human lives. She also chased after the halfway point between Bruce Wayne and Batman and tried to reconcile her love for both sides of the same man.
[01:00:42] Alex: Citation needed. Where? Where does what? How? Who?
[01:00:47] Brian: citations
in the comment that's in the Batman fandom, and I think there might be a, let's see, do they do citations?
[01:00:54] Alex: that's so stupid. Uh, thanks. I hate it.
[01:01:00] Brian: I, I don't, the trip upon thing is interesting to me cause I've never heard that before of a, like I've heard puns, but I've never really considered like more, that her name has a double meaning. Totally makes sense to me. Cuz like, Batman characters freak, it's kind of like, uh, double oh seven.
Like a lot of the, the bad guys they're names have a double meeting and, and Batman's kind of similar, so, That strikes is like totally plausible to me. Like Edward Enigma, he's an e Enigma,
So Chase, Meridian, it, it, it lands in the same area for me. So anyway, in the movie, they go to the circus where they see Dick Grayson's parents killed by two faces, feeling empathy for Dick's loss and feeling responsible for their, cuz he didn't save them.
Bruce brings Dick home. Dick swears at revenge for his parent's death. so the, the whole movie seems to take place at night. So I, I dunno how much time has passed, but one night when they're together, Bruce says it's happening again. Flashes of my parents' death. Dr. Chase responds, your memories are trying to break through.
Don't fight them. And Bruce says, I want to tell you something, something I've never told anyone. So then the movie flashes back, he's at his parents' wake. He talks about my father had their, their red book, Thomas' Journal that he'd written in every day of Bruce's life. A book that would never be written in again.
And how that made him realize the finality of his parents' death. the scene flashes over to him running through the manor grounds in the reign carrying the book. The ground gives out under him and he falls down into a. Just like in the man who falls, but this time after they're dead, uh, he stands up and sees a bat flying at him.
I was scared at first, but only at first. The figure in the dark was my destiny. It would change my life forever. I would use its image to strike terror into the hearts of those who did evil. I would ensure what happened to me would never happen to anyone else again. I would have my revenge and then the flashback ends.
And so that's, that's the big, the flashback portion is like the big, um, origin story thing there. So it's obviously a rip from the comic book stuff in the past, but it's like kind of, molded together a little bit differently.
[01:03:19] Alex: Yeah.
A plus. I think this is great. I think if you're gonna, um, do a flashback to, to a part of the origin and knowing that everyone's seen and heard it a million times over that showing the funeral makes sense. Showing, um, him finding the bat cave makes sense. seeing the bat is sort of a comic element that I don't think we have seen up until this point.
Um, you know, it doesn't crash through the window, but has an encounter with a bat. so yeah, I, I hate to say it cuz these movies aren't, are, aren't the best made. Um, but I think this ticks all the boxes, right? If, if you're gonna pluck this like two minutes out of this movie and put it in another one a plus, uh, well done.
[01:03:58] Brian: Mm-hmm. , but, and then this is the first movie that I know of. I think it has to be Cause it's only the what? The third Batman live action movie. And there's no origin
[01:04:09] Alex: uh, well if you don't count the 19 66 1 Yeah.
[01:04:12] Brian: Oh, I don't, and, uh,
[01:04:15] Alex: cereals from the, the forties as well.
[01:04:17] Brian: well, those aren't but those are, yeah. I guess those are live show stuff, so that's
[01:04:22] Alex: screen.
[01:04:23] Brian: Yeah.
Yeah. But, uh, but yeah, so th this is the first one that like, it's got the bat, it's got the, how he discovers the cave. And it also has that, that I would ensure it's the vow, right? I would ensure what happened to me would never happen to anyone else again. And I'd have my revenge. Like that line never comes through otherwise.
[01:04:42] Brian: Batman Begins, um, and nobody likes this movie, but it's wink wink.
the, uh, Christopher Nolan Batman, uh, that's where Christian Bale plays Batman. this Origins story is basically a direct pull from Batman four 30, which I guess would be. . No. Yeah, this is not your one. So it'll be a direct pull from Batman.
Four 30. Bruce falls into a cave while he is, playing with his friend Rachel Thomas Pulls him out while he is down there. bets swarm this time opposed to four 30. Thomas is loving and caring and he carries Bruce into the manner. I will say that this storytelling has done really well because it hints at a bunch of other stuff.
[01:05:26] Alex: Mm-hmm
[01:05:26] Brian: so Alfred makes a comment that is reminiscent of the recurring themes of the man who falls by saying, ah, took quite a fall. Didn't we Master Bruce? And Thomas says, and why do we follow Bruce so we can learn to pick ourselves up? the movie shows that Bruce is having nightmares about bats. Thomas tells Bruce that the bats attacked because they were afraid of him.
And all animals feel fear, even the scary ones when he shows Bruce a pearl necklace that he plans on giving Martha at, at the same time. So the couple things here that are I think interesting is that like all animals feel, feel fear. That's kind of like setting up the whole, Raul.
Thing with the, the, it's not a fear toxin, but it's a essentially a fear toxin. Later in this, this movie also, he shows Bruce the pearl necklace he's gonna give to his mom that gets torn off of her while she's being killed that same night. So like rut row. in
[01:06:23] Alex: scarecrow is, is the villain in the movie,
[01:06:26] Brian: Yeah. Yes, you're right.
[01:06:27] Alex: he also decides that he wants to strike fear to the hearts of the criminals. It's, it's a very, it's a very well-written movie.
[01:06:32] Brian: Yeah, it is.
[01:06:33] Alex: I'm
[01:06:38] Brian: so riding the train to their theater engagement, Thomas talks to
[01:06:42] Alex: is
also where the final set piece of the film takes place.
[01:06:45] Brian: Yes, you're right. Thomas talks to Bruce about how the city has been suffering and that people less fortunate have been enduring some very challenging times. And he built the train that they are riding to make transportation available to all people. So the theater show that night that they watch is, oh Man, Boto
Maisto. I, it, I looked it up. It is. I don't, I have no idea how it's pronounced. in, in that opera, the scene we witness is none other than the while purchase night where, um, the demons and otherworldly creatures in rapture. this is a real term. The Misin scene
[01:07:28] Alex: Sure.
[01:07:28] Brian: kicks off
a okay, Maison say thank you. That's way more light, correct. kicks off with a shot of the devil himself dominating the stage and the audience before batts and other monsters move about the stage in a frenzy. So also like a really well chosen, um, piece of theater be the, the beginning of like, Batman Begins, right?
It's not Zoro, it's not a movie, it's an opera. Uh, in this version of, the origin story, . And, uh, so then Bruce is reminded of the bats in the cave. He's unnerved and he asked, uh, if they can leave, Thomas continuing to be like the, the coolest dad in all of, like, cinema history is like, yeah, yeah, let's get outta here.
And so, on their way back to the train to get robbed, the man has a gun. Thomas very calmly tells the man to take it easy. He hands over his wallet, the robber turns the gun on Martha to take her new pearl necklace. Thomas steps in between them protecting his wife, and the gun goes off. begins screaming, and the robber shoots her too.
As he's dying. Thomas says to Bruce, it's okay, don't be afraid. Again, referencing back to the all animals feel fear thing, the whole movie's about fear. Um, then Thomas' eyes close and he dies. So the next scene is when the not yet Commissioner Gordon meets Bruce and is very kind to him. And this references back to a whole bunch of other comics.
but like, help me out year one does something like this, maybe.
[01:09:04] Alex: I couldn't tell you off
the top of my
head, but they, this definitely is a thing that happens in the comics.
[01:09:08] Brian: for sure. I, I just watched a thing about this really recently. I just, I can't pull it to mind. Anyway. Many, many, cross comparisons between this and other but. the not yet. Commissioner Gordon's really nice to Bruce. Um, a businessman stops to talk to Bruce at the Fern at the funeral saying, you're in excellent hands.
We'll be watching the empire when you grow up. It'll be waiting for you. and then inside Bruce says to Alfred that it was his fault and if he hadn't gotten scared, they'd still be alive again. Like the, the fear thing. and then like the point of the movie, essentially, I, I don't want to like water it down too much, but like a, a major part of the movie is about him learning to overcome fear and, and not just not be afraid of stuff.
[01:09:53] Alex: Totally, uh, yeah. A, a plus I don't have anything to say other than, um, this is, this is definitive for me. Uh, I don't think anyone's done it better before or since.
[01:10:05] Brian: Yeah. That's, that's probably right.
Batman Earth one. this one was very interesting. Uh, read for me 2012. It's Jeff Johns is the author, and the illustrator is Gary Frank.
[01:10:15] Alex: These guys are, a dream team. By the way, some, some of my favorite comics are written by Jeff Johns, illustrated by Gary Frank.
[01:10:21] Brian: yeah, just totally as an aside, I don't know if you wanna stick this in or not. This one was super, super interesting because it gave more of the background of like where Alfred came from
[01:10:30] Alex: Mm-hmm
[01:10:31] Brian: this is what I'm thinking of. and
[01:10:32] Alex: And this, by the way, not continuity. Um, so the whole point of Earth one is they, and they, they did a, a series of them. So there was like Wonder Woman Earth one, there was Green Lands and Earth one, whatever. they're starting over here. So this is meant to be non continuity, um, sort of parallel universe.
yeah, starting over.
[01:10:47] Brian: So Alfred shows up to Wayne Manor quickly. It's established that Alfred is an old friend of Thomas Wayne's Thomas is running for mayor and request Alfred to come and run his security team. Alfred was in the Royal Marines with Thomas. So you'll note that this has a similarity to the Batman, with, how Thomas Wayne ran for mayor.
So, uh, Thomas, Martha and Bruce are headed out to a movie. Alfred tells them that, it has to stop. It's not safe with all the death threats. They, they shouldn't go out to the movie that their weekly movie outings are not safe. And Thomas refuses to let that particular routine change because his family is so important to him.
he kind of arrogantly like, kind of brushes him off. So then they leave for the show. And during the movie, the theater loses power. And Bruce being some, some kind of a petulant child gets super upset, when they talk about leaving cuz the, the power went down and he said he really wanted to see that show tonight.
And another theater, a few streets over is also showing it tonight. So Bruce runs out of the emergency exit at the, the front of the theater and into the. in the alley. He bumps into some random dude who says, watch where you're going, kid. Bruce turns and says, I don't have to do anything that you say. My parents are the richest people in Gotham City, which is like, whoa.
also not a good move considering the kind of background that we've set up already, that there's a lot of death threats while Thomas Wayne is running for mayor. But he outed his parents that they're there. So the dude turns in a realization and he says, you are the wing kid.
So then Thomas and Martha come running around the corner cuz they're running after Bruce. but by now the man in the alley is holding a gun to Bruce's head and he's demanding their money. the man lunges forward to grab Martha's Pearls. He throws Bruce down and there are two shots.
you don't see what happens. You just hear the shots and then the robber runs away. Bruce's parents laying dead in the alley. So then Alfred shows up at the police station. He wants to help with a search for their killer. Um, and the police let him know that, he was named the legal guardian of Bruce in case, uh, anything happened to them.
So the, storyline here is a little bit crazy because. That night was the first night that Alfred showed up to help as part of it, the Wayne security team. But the Waynes had already done that in the will. So that, that's kind of crazy. But, anyway, Alfred resists
[01:13:15] Alex: And if I re I've recalled correctly. Oh, yeah, yeah. Sorry. No, I, I interrupted you and you were already going to it. He's, very reluctant in this version. Yeah.
[01:13:23] Brian: yeah. He doesn't have the skills to be a parent. Um, but the alternative is that Bruce would be put into foster care, which he obviously doesn't want that to happen. So Alfred decides to take care of Bruce. sometime later Bruce sneaks out of the house to visit his parents.
MAs Lium. Uh, when he opens the door, a swarm of bats fly out and knock him down. Going through storage later, Bruce encounters a samurai suit with obvious bat references. can you describe this picture, Alex?
[01:13:51] Alex: Yeah. I'm gonna do an awful job describing this. it's a samurai suit. it has, a cape that's draped over the right shoulder. it's on the left looking at it from the front, and has lots of those sort of like armor plates on, uh, the forearm, bicep on the shoulder, and around the neck.
It's got, well, it looks like sort of, um, a very large necklace, uh, with a very large rope, uh, made of a very large rope that comes down and has sort of a, I don't know what you call that, like a sash. A tassel. Tassel is probably what you call
in front of a medallion, a big gold medallion that has a bat in the center of it.
Waistband of, of thick ropes, you know, big, thick, you know, three, four ropes tied around each other. And then the, um, samurai Helm, is pretty standard where it has the sort of Darth Vader scoop around the back to, to protect the neck a, and a very fairly standard, sort of dome on the top.
But it, in addition, it has coming sort of from the eyebrows up to, pointed, horn kind of things that very much resemble bat ears. Um, and then instead of just, um, showing the person's face, it has a big metal, you know, skull for a face. I guess it's not a skull, it's got a nose. Um, but, but,
[01:15:08] Brian: It's a mask. Yeah.
[01:15:09] Alex: fake teeth.
[01:15:10] Brian: Mm-hmm.
[01:15:10] Alex: Yeah. Kind of scary looking.
[01:15:12] Brian: And then what's on the helmet in the center? see it at the bottom right?
[01:15:16] Alex: Uh, another bat.
[01:15:18] Brian: And then what color is it? I don't, I can't
[01:15:20] Alex: Kind of in the mi smack dab in the middle of the forehead. Looks black,
[01:15:23] Brian: Yeah. The, the whole suit of armor is black, which, which is in line with Batman, so, yeah. Nailed it. So it is revealed that Bruce Wayne is the child of Martha Arkham Wayne and Thomas Wayne. There's some kind of curse that kills the AUMs and has for hundreds of years, and that the curse was caused by evil spirits in the form of bats.
So this is kind of going back to some of that shaman stuff, and, and so on of like, he is predestined to have this like bat connection, Right. Um, and I really can't go further on this because it's not really related to the Batman origin anymore. Um, so you have to read the earth one story to read the rest.
it looks pretty kickass. but I didn't see any other, like flashback or things where he's a kid. After that,
[01:16:06] Alex: Yeah, you should definitely read the rest of it. if you, if you get the chance, I forget what the name of the, the villain, but he's like, uh, birthday themed. Um, it's kind of, kind
[01:16:13] Brian: It's like calendar man or something. Yeah.
[01:16:15] Alex: I don't think it is actually Calendar, man. Question mark. Hold on, gimme a second. I'm, I'm pulling up the, the birthday boy.
[01:16:21] Brian: the birthday boy.
[01:16:22] Alex: He's a serial killer. really freaky.
yeah, I shouldn't speak so confidently cuz it's been a minute since I've, I've read it. He may be in league with Cobble Pott or something like that.
[01:16:31] Brian: Animated movie Batman, the Dark Knight Returns part 1 20 12. not notable, really. Um, so old man Bruce gets drunk after hearing the news that reminds him of his parents' death flashback.
And you see quick flashes of the alley and them getting shot. But that's it. jump.
[01:16:48] Alex: is, this is by the way, is the reason that, that people have, a hate for adaptations of, the Batman origin stories that like every random animated thing and, and movie, like they're shoehorning it in when it really doesn't even make sense. The origin really have much to do with Dark Knight returns,
[01:17:02] Brian: Yeah. And I, I think that like when, because we, we talked about like whether they should do origin stories, and I've thought about it a lot since we talked about it then. And I think that if, if you're gonna use it in like these random flashback you sense like this, then like, no, don't do it. But if you're going to use it as like a, to set up the character in the rest of the story, in the way that like Batman Begins, does Absolutely do it.
[01:17:27] Alex: Sure, sure. Sure.
[01:17:28] Brian: Yeah.
All right. Batman Zero year Dark City 2013. the author is Scott Snyder, illustrator is Greg Capullo. Do you know them?
[01:17:38] Alex: Yeah. So this is the new, yeah, this is the new 52 run. Um, so when you, talk about, Court of Owls, the Court of Vowels is the first arc written by Scott Snyder, drawn by Greg Kalu. They did like 52 issues or something like that. They did a, a bunch, uh, together. They, they, are a, a well-liked, creators that, that recently, um, did, did Batman
[01:17:59] Brian: so Bruce fell into the cave. Thomas finds and pulls him out. Um, so his dad, Thomas says, I know you've had trouble since you fell into the cave. he had noticed that he'd walked through the city alone multiple times and went into bad parts of town. So then Gordon and another officer picked him up for running away at, at one point.
So, so that, that's what Thomas is referencing there. I know you've had trouble since you fell into the cave because ever since he'd fallen into the cave, he, he'd kind of started like wandering off and getting into trouble. So Thomas and Martha watched, a movie together, Zorro. Afterward they walked through the alleyway, a robber shoots Thomas, and then Martha, this reboot of Batman.
And his origin story is not really very notable overall. Um, there's a lot of cool backstory, but the one, the only notable thing about this story that informs his development towards becoming Batman is this, it shows him pre Batman setting up a procedure of electro shop, uh, electro shock therapy to become a different person and to forget what happened to his parents.
he ended up backing out and deciding to face his history and learn to cope. That, that, that's why this one is notable in the origin story.
[01:19:13] Alex: Yeah. The, so, in the, the, the new 52 was the second sort of like huge major reboot of, uh, DC Comics of Crisis on Infinite Earths was one happened in the eighties. new 52 happens in 2012, starts with with Flashpoint. And, Dan Dio, who was the publisher at the time, asks them to do this because they were asking everyone to do it.
they across all of the, the books at the same time, they were doing zero year stuff. and, um, Scott Snyder did a bunch of interviews at the time and was basically like, listen, You know, year one is one of the most famous and popular books of, of all time for good reason. And like, I'm not gonna top it.
And so like, I don't want to, he very purposefully avoids, contradicting or acknowledging or doing anything with it. And like, so despite the fact that this is like, Dan de Dio is like, this is a different universe and none of that happened. And, and, you know, Scott Snyder says like, I'm not gonna write a thing that says that didn't happen.
Right? So he go, does, goes and does something completely, totally different. Steers clear. it's a interesting story. I wouldn't necessarily call it an origin. Um, and it's, it's not the height of the, the Scott Snyder, Greg Capullo run. I, I would not start here.
[01:20:18] Brian: the next 1,
20 13, the Justice League, um, the Flashpoint Paradox. It's an animated movie. There's a whole bunch of Justice League animated movies like this.
Um, I decided to go with the Flashpoint Paradox instead of reading through Flashpoint, the, the series, just because it gives like a TLDR on the Batman portion of it,
[01:20:37] Alex: Sure
[01:20:38] Brian: yeah. It's just a lot easier. So anyway,
[01:20:40] Alex: it's a Batman book. It's very much a
[01:20:42] Brian: no it's not. Yes,
[01:20:44] Alex: it, prob probably makes sense to
[01:20:45] Brian: yes. so the TLDR is that flash is opposite Eber th uh, otherwise known
[01:20:52] Alex: Bard. Yep.
[01:20:53] Brian: AO Bard. Okay. Otherwise known as the Reverse flash. And Professor Zoom, uses the speed force to travel back in time and prevent the Flash's mother from dying. This change in history causes a bunch of ripples in how time progresses.
Bruce Wayne is the one that died in Crime Alley. the flashback is different from what we've talked about so far because Thomas Wayne beats the pulp out of Joe Chill while Martha sobs holding Bruce's dead body. Martha has blood on her hands, um, when she holds up them up to her mouth in shock.
And so then when Thomas comes back after beating the tar out of Joe Chill, Martha loses her mind and with grief starts laughing maniacally. and when she pulls her hand away from her mouth, af from the shock, she's got like a bloody kind of smile, on her face. Uh, and so then Thomas Wayne ends up becoming Batman.
Martha Wayne becomes the Joker, and, uh, this Batman kills and also uses guns. He's, and he's like
[01:21:56] Alex: yeah, yeah, yeah. FLA Flashpoint proper. I've got it right here. I'm so embarrassed cuz this isn't shrink wrap. You're gonna think I don't read my books. I promise I read all of this cuz I had it in trade paperback before I was reading this while my son was being born, I brought, I brought, uh, all my trade paperbacks of Flashpoint Universe stuff to, to the hospital with me.
and, uh, while, while Clark and, and Bree were sleeping. Um, so Flashpoint itself is like six issues or five issues or something like that. It's a very short story. Um, but they had this
[01:22:30] Brian: I just wanna save you in the edit. You read them after he was born, not during the birth. Right.
[01:22:36] Alex: That's, that's right. I was present for the birth .
[01:22:38] Brian: cool
[01:22:41] Alex: Yeah
[01:22:42] Brian: Clark was being born and I was like, ER, I don't know
[01:22:45] Alex: when we, when we were in the I don't know, it's all, it was all one event. We were there for
[01:22:48] Brian: sure.
[01:22:49] Alex: Um, and everyone tells you, um, get sleep while you can. You gotta sleep at the hospital while you can sleep, sleep, sleep while you can. when you get home you're not gonna be sleeping.
And I didn't listen and that was wrong, uh, because they were right. but I was reading Flashpoint, so, this tome is the 10th anniversary, flashpoint Omnibus, and it has all of the spinoffs. So, like I'm fairly certain, yeah. I'm fairly certain that we don't actually. Um, the Batman origin or Martha at all in the Flashpoint book proper.
but there is a whole spinoff series. I think it's like three issues where we get to see Martha being the Joker and that's Not written by Jeff Johns. so, so yeah, a bunch of people were commissioned to write spinoff books, um, that take place in the Flashpoint Universe. So this history, alternate history, everything's screwed up.
What's happening right now. So there's like a Wonder Woman book and there's an Aquaman book and there's a, you know, all kinds of stuff like that. It's, um, super interesting alternate universe. It's nice cuz it's self-contained. Doesn't have, you know, anything else you need to know about it. But it's worth noting that, what you say here in your notes is that AO Bar Bar th is the one that changes history in the book. That's not the case. It's, is Barry Allen. He changes history.
[01:23:59] Brian: Oh, interesting.
[01:23:59] Alex: He's trying to save his mom. And screws up so he does it to himself.
[01:24:03] Brian: same year, 2013. So this is, you probably didn't think we were gonna go to the Teen Titans. Go to the movies. Animated movie.
[01:24:11] Alex: I did not,
[01:24:12] Brian: this was, this is the silly but funny one. So the Teen Titans.
[01:24:17] Alex: believe that was 2013 by the way. I feel like that was last year.
[01:24:19] Brian: I know. Time flies. It's So the Teen Titans want a superhero movie. it's, they do this really funny, um, montage. They just really funny montage of like all the superhero movies and like all the superheroes on the, the movie sets and like all the stuff in Robins, like, I want my own one. So they end up talking to a movie producer who tells them that the only way that she would consider making a movie about them is if no other superheroes existed, which should be like, quiet a shutdown.
But Robin is excited by the news because it gives him clear direction on what it will take to get a movie. So they decide to go back in time and save all the superheroes from becoming super. So like it starts out with, they go back to, Krypton and they basically do a dance rave party with the crystals.
And the crystals on Krypton, um, in this dance rave end up saving the whole planet. And there's no need
for, um, Ken or Callal to be shot across space. Right? And so then they just continually do that. They, save all the different superhero origins. Like they, they take Wonder Woman's, rope and they just take it away from her and they start like jumping rope with it just kind of bully her and she cries and because she doesn't have it, she ends up not becoming a Wonder Woman.
just the little things like that. So then they jumped through time, thwarting terrible events, uh, that create the DC superheroes, including a stop by a theater showing the mask of Zero and Gray Ghost as a double feature. So this is a little ironic because, uh, the Gray Ghost is a superhero from Bruce's childhood.
So they didn't thwart all the superheroes in all time. They just sw the superheroes of their time. And, uh, so then they're coming out and Bruce says, thanks for taking me to the movies in this dangerous neighborhood. Dad. And the Teen
stop the Wayne family saying, whoa, stop. You can't go down there.
That's Crime Alley. You dumb dumbs. May I suggest you take a shortcut through Happy Land instead? And this, it shows this like very happy, like pink and yellow place, and they're like, oh yeah, great idea, success. No Batman. So then it turns out that messing with time is bad in this instance as well. so they go back in time and then cause all the tragic events that were the cause of the creation of the superhero.
So including pushing Martha and Thomas Wayne down Crime Alley. You hear shots, Bruce looks horrified and then Robin gives the team the thumbs up and they go back to the present. they also, I thought it was
[01:26:55] Alex: so good.
[01:26:56] Brian: Yeah, it was pretty funny. I didn't watch the whole movie. I just watched that section. Uh, I think you'd be a little bit proud of me cuz I threw these up and it wasn't QuickTime, it's another video software, but I watched a whole bunch of these on two x just so I could jump to the important parts more easily. And I watched
[01:27:14] Alex: Uh, no, no.
That doesn't make you
Oh, you, you watched the important person.
still, it still doesn't make me proud of you. I so , I, I realized, because I also have been listening to some of our older episodes that there's like inside jokes that we give that like people don't know. Uh, Brian is referring to the fact that I listen to like, podcasts and watch YouTube at two x, but
[01:27:35] Brian: I listen to
[01:27:37] Alex: purely non-fiction
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do not, I do not consume any fiction at two x I don't
[01:27:45] Brian: Oh that's
[01:27:46] Alex: But, uh,
[01:27:47] Brian: one other thing that I thought was funny, totally not Batman related is the way that they save Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. is they all up turn them around cuz they're about to crawl through the U'S and they just pick them up and turn
[01:28:00] Alex: that's amazing.
[01:28:01] Brian: that's all they did.
[01:28:03] Alex: I love that they do non, uh, Warner Brothers non DCE properties.
[01:28:06] Brian: Yeah. I, I thought they did a good job
[01:28:08] Alex: I need to go watch that movie.
[01:28:11] Brian: Okay.
Gotham, the TV show, 2014 pilot episode. So young cat woman steals milk to feed her stray cats in the alleyway. She hides as, a couple and their young son come walking down the alleyway.
I bet you can't guess who they are. The silhouette of
[01:28:27] Alex: woman's present for some reason. Oh, good. I
[01:28:32] Brian: The silhouette of a man is walking toward the family with purpose. His hand in his pocket, he pulls the gun on the family, gimme your money. No problem. Says Thomas. He hands the mugger his money and says, we are cooperating.
The necklace barks the mugger. So Martha takes the necklace off and as she hands it over, the necklace breaks and the pearls fall. The mugger moves his gun and uh, shoots Thomas. Then he turns and shoots Martha. Bruce is obviously shocked. The mugger aims his gun at Bruce and then runs past him. So Bruce calls out to his parents since they're both dead.
[01:29:10] Alex: But they're both dead.
[01:29:11] Brian: Oh, did I say the wrong
[01:29:12] Alex: You said since they're both dead .
[01:29:14] Brian: Oh but
oh yeah, he calls out to them, but they're dead. so then yeah, James Gordon is called to the crime scene where he talks to Bruce. Um, Bruce expresses expresses guilt for not stopping the mugger from shooting his parents.
Gordon tells Bruce that he couldn't have made a difference and what he needs to do is be strong. So then the first episode largely is about Jim Gordon, but it does connect in, it's pretty interesting. But Jim Gordon quickly ends up encountering a bunch of bad people like Falcon and his gang. Um, he is able to find that the guy who had Martha's Pearl.
that guy seemingly poison, Ivy's abusive father dies in a chase with the police. Surprised he was framed. Gordon goes back to Bruce to apologize for failing to find the killer because he found a dude who had been framed. so he goes back and he apologizes to Bruce and asks for another chance, and Bruce grants it.
but he, the, the important thing there is he says to Bruce that you can't tell anyone that I've told you this because the e everyone, like the, the police have closed the case. But this dude had been framed and only I know that. So this is essentially where the, the pilot ends. I did read ahead and see that Matches Malone is the name of the dude that killed, that actually killed the Waynes and is a hitman paid to do the hit by Hugo Strange.
[01:30:39] Alex: Why would they do that?
[01:30:41] Brian: And, Falcon had set things up to, frame this other dude so that, Falcon controls. The city. He, he controls the mayor, he controls the police. And so as long as there is not chaos, he is still making a lot of money as a organized crime Lord. so he's like pulling the strings to make sure the right things are being solved over others.
So the fact that Martha and Thomas had been killed, he had to, find a way to cover up for that. But, so I only bring that matches Malone thing up because of what we talked about in the last episode DC 2 35. It was Joe Chill paid for by Lou Moin. Um, and
[01:31:23] Alex: Oh, I thought you were gonna bring up that matches Malone is Batman thing. Okay, guys.
[01:31:29] Brian: And then Matches Malone or Matthew Malone are a common disguise that, that Bruce slash Batman, um, uses when he is going undercover to infiltrate criminal organizations from the comic books.
[01:31:41] Alex: Yeah.
that's what I . It was kind of weird. You would use a name that Bruce goes by as
like an alter
ego as a, a bad, like a random hitman?
[01:31:49] Brian: So I, I think I also read that, um, Bruce's Alter Ego or whatever, is the name of a actual criminal criminal as well. So he's
[01:31:59] Alex: Oh,
[01:32:00] Brian: name
[01:32:02] Alex: so this is the, yes. We're planting the seed of like, okay. I guess that makes more sense now.
[01:32:07] Brian: So the whole story that, excuse me, the whole show I is the origin story information for, for Bruce Wayne Batman. It all takes place
[01:32:16] Alex: Right? You said
[01:32:18] Brian: So I'm,
[01:32:19] Alex: episode mostly focused on Gordon, but I think that a lot of the show is that way. Like it's like what is happening in Gotham? Pre Yeah.
[01:32:27] Brian: Yeah. So like to reveal my cards, I didn't wanna watch an entire television series since it's all origin stuff. Um, so all I can really speak to is this one episode that was really Gordon heavy, but I know that most of the show is not Bruce heavy. Um, it's about bunch of, it's about the adults of when Bruce was a kid.
Um, and it, it's, I think it's gonna set up a lot of the, the reasons that Gotham is needs Bat Batman, you know? but you should watch the show. I recommend it from what I've seen, it's got a 7.8 on I M D B. Uh, I prefer MDB over Rotten
[01:33:02] Alex: surprised by that.
[01:33:03] Brian: it's rated pretty high.
[01:33:05] Alex: Sure. It's, um, from what I understand, it's like above par for, for DC shows, but like the bar's pretty low also for live action television, so,
[01:33:14] Brian: Animated movie, Batman versus Robin 2015. So this one was really interesting cuz it was a storyline that I was not familiar with. So, starts with, uh, Has a flashback to when he was little. Thomas Wayne reads, beware the court of owls that watches all the time gazing from the shadows behind cement and lime. They see you in your heart. They see you in your bed. Take care, beware. Or they will send a talent for your head. Is it true? Dad? Ask Bruce, is there really a group of rich and powerful men that rule the city from the shadows, who send their talent out to destroy Anyone who ever mentions their existence responds Thomas, absolutely not.
It's not real. And even if it was, do you think we'd ever let anything bad happen to you? No. I promise that your mother and I will always be around to protect you. Flesh to crime. Alley and gunshots. Bruce's parents dead on the street as a man runs away in the distance. Bruce sees an owl carrying a dead bat. Uh, an actual owl, not like a Cordell. jump ahead to the end. Batman says, a monastery in the Himalayas where I studied the Himalayas are not in North Korea anywhere. So there's a, there's a couple of things that are interesting in how it like, touches into the, touches into the comics, but also like change his origin.
[01:34:38] Alex: Yeah. Yeah. I had always read the mountains, uh, the snowy mountains as, as the Himalayas as well when I was watching the movies and So, that's just aligning with the people's intuition, despite the fact that the comics always, always, uh, had 'em training in Korea.
[01:34:52] Brian: But this one, the Batman versus Superman's story is also really interesting and I don't need to go into
it cuz it's
not Yeah, yeah. was interesting. It's not about the origin at all, it's the stuff in between everything I just said. But, uh, Robin is Damien Batman's son.
[01:35:09] Alex: Mm-hmm.
[01:35:10] Brian: And, that whole thing I had not been aware of at all until I watched this.
[01:35:15] Alex: Oh, really? ?
[01:35:16] Brian: Yeah.
Pretty interesting situation where, um, I can't remember her name. Raul's
[01:35:21] Alex: Uh, Talia Al Go. Yeah.
[01:35:24] Brian: and Bruce had a child
[01:35:25] Alex: Who is the villain in, uh, dark Knight Rises.
[01:35:28] Brian: correct?
[01:35:28] Alex: yeah, you, I mean, if you're not gonna read, if you're gonna watch the movies, then um, you should watch Son of Batman, which I'm pretty sure this movie is a sequel to, um, that introduces Damien.
[01:35:39] Brian: I have it. I haven't watched it yet though.
[01:35:41] Alex: I, um, I can't say that I recommend it. I, I tend to really hate all of the animated movies, but
[01:35:47] Brian: Hmm
Yeah, I mean,
[01:35:48] Alex: um, cool that the, this ties into quarter vows as well.
[01:35:51] Brian: Yeah, I will say that. Like if I'm being like really honest and I have the time, I prefer the comics. Like,
[01:35:58] Alex: sure
[01:35:59] Brian: dark, Knight Returns. Is that where he's old?
[01:36:01] Alex: Mm-hmm.
[01:36:03] Brian: that's killer to like absolute perfection. I love that book so much. it, the storytelling, the way it sets things up, we just haven't seen in any animated or live action film.
So I like, I, I like that one. I, I like that way of storytelling way, way, way better. But, uh, I don't really take the time to like sit and read very often, so I end up doing movies and TV shows quite a bit more.
[01:36:31] Alex: Totally, totally fair.
[01:36:32] Brian: Batman versus Superman, Don of Justice, this is a movie in 2016. Um, not really much new to say here. There's a quick flashback thing at the beginning of the movie. Um, when the pre-roll credits are running, you see Martha die. You see Bruce fall into the cave and be swar by bats. In this version, Bruce is lifted up by the bats as they swarm around him.
[01:36:55] Alex: And if, if you recall, the reason that this is critical is because of the climactic scene of this stupid fucking movie is, is, is Batman is gonna kill Superman, and he's got him pinned down and Superman is like, let me go, I've gotta go say Martha. And, and Batman's like, why did you say that name? So it's like really critical and important to the story that, both their mother's name is Martha because, once Batman realizes that they're friends.
[01:37:27] Brian: yeah,
[01:37:27] Alex: masterpiece, a excellent storytelling.
[01:37:31] Brian: Chef's Kiss. Love it.
[01:37:33] Alex: Yeah.
[01:37:34] Brian: Uh, this is the last two we're right, right. Almost there.
Joker 2019. Um, so this one's interesting. So not, not a ton to say here, but there is a, an interesting element, um, because like in, is it Batman Returns or just Batman? 1989. the,
[01:37:52] Alex: 1989 is just Batman.
[01:37:53] Brian: it's just Batman.
Okay. So in Batman 1989, joker, before he was the Joker killed, Thomas and Martha Wayne, uh, in Joker the movie 2019, it's like similar, but not, that's not what happens. So Arthur Fleck, who becomes a joker, thinks that Thomas is. Actually his dad, and he goes to Wayne Manor from outside the manor. He meets Bruce and does some magic for him. Eventually he's confronted by Alfred, um, but flees after he briefly attacks Alfred. Um, and that's like the only time that like Bruce Wayne interacts with Arthur Flex slash Joker before a assuming down the line. he's his like arch rival or whatever. But then later in the movie, during the riots that were caused by, Arthur Flex Madness, um, one of the rioters catches the Wayne family in an alley in murders.
Thomas and his wife sparing Bruce. So it's someone dressed up to look like the Joker before the Joker was the Joker killed Thomas and Martha Wayne. So I thought that was kind of an interesting little spin. what would you call, it's like almost like a tangent on like a, a real storyline, but is
[01:39:06] Alex: It's a riff. Yeah. They're, they're
doing their own thing
I, I, I like this movie. I hate that it exists. . You know, I, I wish, uh, we were telling new and different stories instead of redoing the same ones over and over and over again, but it's, it's actually pretty good worth, worth going to go
[01:39:21] Brian: Totally.
finally we're at the Batman, which I didn't even put a year on this. My goodness.
[01:39:26] Alex: 2022. The 2022 moving picture film. Yes.
[01:39:30] Brian: That's right. I thought it was funny in the podcast as I was listening to it, you called it the Moving film. I thought that was funny.
[01:39:37] Alex: well cuz I, I just think it's so ridiculous that you have a, a movie called the Batman, and that's distinguishing it from Batman, and so you're supposed to keep track of it somehow. So I find myself every time I reference it, calling it the 2022 movie, and I just feel so stupid introducing a podcast going bat the Batman, the 2022 moving picture film.
So like, I don't know. Yes. I'm, I'm calling it moving picture to hang the lantern as it
[01:39:58] Brian: No, I get that. I mean, I think that realistically people aren't good at like keeping all the names, in order, you know, like keeping track of all them. So people kind of like refer to like the Christopher Nolan Batman Begins, you know, or the, um, it's the same way that they talk about James Bond, where it's like, this is the pierce brazen bond and, and, and stuff like that.
So I think people end up referring to the actor, um, who played Batman. So
[01:40:24] Alex: Oh, totally.
[01:40:24] Brian: the Robert
[01:40:25] Alex: I I don't think it's necessarily, yeah, I don't think it's, it's, it's necessarily incumbent on everyone to keep track of the names. But for the turbo nerds like me, I need disambiguation, please. Thank you.
[01:40:38] Brian: yeah, And it's not like you're gonna be able to say it's, it's the Batman that has the Riddler. Oh, hmm. know,
[01:40:45] Alex: Right?
[01:40:47] Brian: uh, yeah. In that movie, a viral video from the Ridler makes waves as it reveals that there is a dark history between the Wayne and Aham families, which this refers back to, what'd I say, earth one earlier or Earth Zero.
and, A reporter has been trying to do an expose on Martha Wayne over her years in and out of asylums while seeking psychiatric help. Allegedly Thomas has spoken to Falcon about handling the reporter.
And Falcon killed the guy leading everyone to believe that Thomas put a hitman out on the man, which that's, that's not great. So Bruce confronts Alfred, at some point in the movie where he like learns this, and Alfred, um, who maintains that? Thomas only asked Falcon to threaten the journalist into silence.
Alfred insists that Thomas really was a good man, and that he was appalled by what happened to the reporter. Alfred also suggested that Fgo, that Falcon was the one who put a hit on the Waynes because Thomas had felt guilty about the murder that he was going to confess to the, to the. Alfred believes that Falcon had Thomas and Martha Wayne killed to silence them from, uh, that confession.
So this one, like some of the comics that we talked about, uh, last time isn't distinctly about Batman's origin, but does illustrate some of the details around the Wayne murders. Uh, it also talks about, Thomas running for mayor. It talks about Martha Wayne being aum, which we saw from Earth Zero.
[01:42:23] Alex: Earth
[01:42:23] Brian: knocking Earth one, if I'm knocking my titles mixed up. let's see, Alfred's characterization, Thomas Wayne's mayoral campaign. The Martha Wayne, uh, being part of the Arkin family all came from Earth one. Yeah.
[01:42:37] Alex: yeah, I think, I think this is one of those things where like, you're not necessarily changing any of the details of the inciting incident itself, but you're giving details about the characters to provide color, um, kind of change the way that you, um, you know, different shade to, to, to the way we interpret, um, you know, Bruce himself.
So I, I, I really appreciate it.
[01:42:53] Brian: Yeah. Uh, and then I did add a little additional reading section cuz like we talked about Flashpoint, if you wanted to go through all that stuff. The Court of Vows, which I think should be a standalone episode at some point. and then I found this, uh, this YouTube video that was really. It's called, the Joe Chill joker connection.
Do you know the many killers of the wanes? And it, and this is where I found the Zodiac for example, and it's these three dudes that, it's, it's really reminiscent to like, last podcast on the left were like, one or two of them are like professionals at whatever they're talking about. And the third one is just there to like shit on everything that they're saying.
funny, uh, I didn't finish it, uh, but it was, it was interesting and I would like to finish it when I have more time.
[01:43:45] Alex: Yeah, I've added this to, to my watch later. Superhero stuff. You should know.
But yeah, this video, this looks great.
This is like, there's a ton of chapters and they have a bunch of different people that, that killed Batman. That's awesome. We should, uh, I will definitely add this to my watch later and, uh,
[01:43:59] Brian: I killed the winds. None of 'em killed Batman, but
[01:44:02] Alex: Oh, sure. Yeah, that would be a very interesting, a whole different, a whole different
[01:44:07] Brian: yeah, it would
[01:44:08] Alex: So, Brian, I got, I, I gotta say, uh, man, downhill We've been, we've been recording for two hours and 26 minutes, and I'm sure I can edit an episode out of this, but man, there was just way more better stuff, uh, from, from 1939 to 1989 than there was from 1989 to 2023. There's a lot of trash in here, man.
[01:44:30] Brian: There is I, I mean, I think the best stuff from everything that I read was probably for the most part, just the 1989, just the eighties. I think there was some really good stuff in the eighties,
[01:44:42] Alex: Right, right after a crisis on infant earth. Yeah. Everyone was kind of, uh, making some new stuff. There's good stuff in here. I think some, some of the adaptations, I mean, to, to, to be fair, the majority of the things I think here are adaptations. Um, and some of them are great. Um, you know, like Batman begins
well, I, I wasn't expecting you to convince me on the episode that the, that the origin in Batman forever is actually pretty, pretty good.
And, and you know what? I probably, because you started with the Super Boy stories, that probably shaded my , my reception, cuz I think those are just so, uh, they don't match my sensibility. I think if I was in a better mood, I probably would've been, uh, more amenable. But, uh, those are, those were rough, man.
[01:45:28] Brian: They were, I totally agree. They were just bananas outta control.
[01:45:34] Alex: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
[01:45:35] Brian: which, like, this is actually one of those interesting, like differences between you and me is because, like I talked about this in the, the, the Batman episode, the one, the movie, um, the moving picture film of 2022, where,
[01:45:50] Alex: Yes. Yes,
[01:45:51] Brian: where we were talking about how like I just kind of, absorb things and like my feelings about them and pure entertainment value, whereas you are much more analyzing them, uh, and what like, how what, what their quality is, how well they were made and, and
[01:46:08] Alex: sure,
[01:46:08] Brian: And so like these super boy things are like massive eye roll ridiculousness, but like mostly funny
cuz it's just
so dumb and you're just like pissed
[01:46:20] Alex: Yeah, Why does this exist? decided this was a good idea? They're rooting everything I love. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:46:27] Brian: Yeah, absolutely.
[01:46:28] Alex: uh, I, I, I should approach some of those things with better humor, and I think I, I think I do to some degree. Like we've read a bunch of Golden Age Batman stories that I think because I have a, a love and care for Batman, and because I'm like researching the, the writers about it, I have more patience for it.
Whereas like the super boy's, like, I don't give a crap about Super Boy who wrote this. I've never heard of them.
[01:46:46] Brian: Oh, yeah,
[01:46:47] Alex: um, which is, we're probably gonna get some angry, you know, super boy ultra fan writing in about like, you didn't know about, like, his future telescope. Like of course that's like a s a very important part of like, you know, I love that about Super Boy Comics, you know?
[01:47:04] Brian: Well, I don't want you to take what I said as a critique at all. I love it. I think that's
[01:47:08] Alex: no, no, no,
[01:47:09] Brian: us work really well. And, and like The Silver Age stuff where they're talking about like the massive penny and like the, the T-Rex and that stuff that's like totally unrealistic and over the top that doesn't seem to upset you at all.
It's this, this, this weird Rhett Connie, how on earth make sense in like a continuity standpoint? That's, that's the really irksome stuff,
[01:47:32] Alex: Right, right, right.
[01:47:33] Brian: totally agree.
[01:47:33] Alex: Yeah. Yeah. It's like, uh, you know, we need to sell super boy comics. Let's trash, you know, Batman continuity for fun,
some comics, you know. cool.
[01:47:44] Brian: So,
[01:47:45] Alex: all this together, man.
[01:47:46] Brian: heck yeah, man. It was, it was really interesting and it, it does really put the bar high for me as far as like how much effort I had to put into the research for this. Um, and I feel like you could give me any other episode and it'll probably be a little easier.
[01:48:02] Alex: Sure, sure, sure, sure. Well, I, you know, not that I don't appreciate it, cuz I do, cause I think this was, if there was any episode for you to put in this effort, I think this would've been the one, like, I think very, um, important and things, uh, sort of ripple out from there. But, um, you know, I, I think it is probably the case that like, when we go to like, what is every version of the Batmobile or whatever in like a year from now and you're doing research from that, you, you don't need to go this deep.
Like uh I think people will understand
We do, we do an hour worth of content. We only hit the stuff that's most notable. Uh, and, and you'll, uh, get some more sleep. You know, I
[01:48:34] Brian: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:48:37] Alex: again, not a critique. I, I
[01:48:38] Brian: Oh yeah. Well this is my first hosting episode, so I'm, I'm definitely like, there's a learning curve here for sure.
[01:48:45] Alex: Sure, sure, sure, sure.
[01:48:46] Brian: If you like the show, then maybe you can help other people find us too. Tell your friends about the show if you think they'd be interested. If you're using Apple Podcast, tap on the name of the show. Scroll down and find a place to give us a review.
All you gotta do is tap on the stars, but if you write a review, we will read it on the show. If you're using Overcast, hit the star at the bottom of the now playing screen to recommend us. It helps us a lot. If we can build up an audience, then we can keep putting out episode. You can find all of our episodes and show email@example.com.
You can send us comments, questions, corrections, or even suggestions to firstname.lastname@example.org, or you can tweet at us at bat lessons. Until next time, I'm Brian Anders.
[01:49:32] Alex: And I'm Alex Cash.
[01:49:33] Brian: Thanks for listening.